RTÉ executives faced another grilling over the use of multiple barter accounts as they appear before the Oireachtas Committee on Media.
The hearing started just after 1.30pm and finished at 7.10pm.
RTÉ has been engulfed in crisis after revelations last month that it underreported the salary paid to star presenter Ryan Tubridy and failed to disclose €345,000 of additional payments to him between 2017 and 2022, some of which were processed through a commercial barter account.
The broadcaster acknowledged the existence of further barter accounts in statements on Tuesday night, despite chief financial officer Richard Collins telling the Public Accounts Committee last week that there was only one such account.
The Media Committee began at 1.30pm to ask further questions to RTÉ board members and executives, as well as the former chair of the RTÉ board, Moya Doherty, and former chief financial officer Breda O’Keeffe.
RTÉ’s executive and board said they will address the issue of the additional barter accounts during the session.
This is how it played out:
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The hearing has finished after nearly six hours.
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RTÉ board chairwoman Siun Ní Raghaillagh has called out the “inconsistency and lack of completeness” from the executive.
Responding to some of the evidence given in today's committee hearing, the National Union of Journalists branch representing members employed at RTÉ said workers were “incredibly upset and reeling”.
The NUJ Broadcasting Branch said: “The contrast between the lavish spending we are hearing about and how ordinary staff were being treated during these years is staggering”
The union said when former RTÉ director-general Dee Forbes assured star presenter Ryan Tubridy his payments would not be cut, many young workers were going into a sixth month without pay increments because they had been suspended by the national broadcaster.
Branch chairwoman Emma O Kelly said RTÉ was paying for membership at a private members club in London while its UK correspondent Fiona Mitchell was using cafes around the city as an office to report on Brexit.
“Fiona was forced to use toilet facilities in cafes as a quiet space to record her voice for TV and radio reports,” Ms O Kelly said.
She added that in the same period NUJ members were “upset and anxious” over problems with Covid payments, precarious contracts and other pandemic-related challenges.
RTÉ’s interim deputy director-general said a three-way deal between the broadcaster, Ryan Tubridy and Renault is dependent on a verbal agreement.
Responding to John Brady TD, Adrian Lynch said: “What actually underwrites the entire contract is a verbal agreement, as you’ll notice, Deputy, when you read that contract, there’s no clause for underwriting.
“There’s no clause for €75,000. It is literally an event sponsorship agreement.
“So this entire contract is dependent on a verbal agreement that was given on May 7th, 2020 by the director-general to (Tubridy’s agent) Noel Kelly.”
“Furthermore, we contacted the agent in March of 2023 around clarification around the invoices, and we received confirmation what the invoices were, their numbers, and the fact that these invoices were sent based on a verbal agreement between the agent and the director-general.”
Former chief financial officer Breda O’Keeffe said she was appearing before the media committee to “set the record straight”.
Asked by Christopher O’Sullivan if she had been “thrown under the bus” by the current executive, Ms O’Keeffe said: “That’s a tough one”.
Continuing to respond to a question on whether RTÉ’s statement on events accurately represented her role in the Tubridy payment issue, she said: “My recollections were more akin to what happened, is my view.”
Asked if she felt former director-general Dee Forbes had also been “thrown under the bus”, Ms O’Keeffe said: “I can’t comment on that.”
The commercial director of RTÉ has defended the purchase of an annual membership for meeting rooms at the exclusive private members club Soho House in London.
Responding to questioning from Ciaran Cannon during the media committee hearing, Geraldine O’Leary said the membership was in her name.
“Depending on the year, approximately 5 per cent of our business comes from the UK (through UK agencies).
“Previously, we used to have offices in London in Millbank, and previously on Bond Street where we would meet clients. We don’t have that anymore.
“So we avail of the opportunity to have meetings in Soho House in London, when we are there with clients.”
Ms O’Leary added that due to multinational clients based there, “well over a third” of revenue is decided in the UK.
Brendan Griffin asked why the membership was renewed roughly during the second wave of Covid-19 in September 2020.
Ms O’Leary said: “We need to travel to London to meet our customers, we couldn’t predict when the next lockdown was going to come.”
She said no accommodation was included in the package.
Star presenter Ryan Tubridy continues to be paid by RTÉ, according to interim deputy director-general Adrian Lynch.
“There were negotiations going on about a radio contract, those negotiations – as a result of all of this – were suspended.
“So currently, as we said, we are still paying Ryan Tubridy and there are certain elements of the contract that are in dispute with the agent.”
Asked by Senator Micheal Carrigy whether the staff member who returned the car after a five-year loan was a member of the board, executive or talent, Mr Lynch said he could not give out that information as it would be too specific and lead to speculation about a narrow group of people.
However, Mr Lynch said on advice from the data protection office he could be more transparent on the issue in the future.
“I’m sure it will come out anyway.”
Fianna Fáil senator Timmy Dooley questioned RTÉ’s interim deputy director-general Adrian Lynch on whether any personalities at the broadcaster were in possession of a car as a result of being brand ambassadors for motoring companies.
Mr Lynch revealed one RTÉ staff member had secured the loan of a car for five years.
He told the media committee the loan period was “not approved” and the car was returned on Tuesday.
“I’m aware of one instance where somebody had a loan of car. My understanding is that car has been returned and that individual is a staff member of RTÉ,” Mr Lynch said.
Mr Dooley asked how long the car had been on loan.
“I believe for a period of five years,” Mr Lynch said, adding: “That was not approved.”
Mr Dooley later asked when the car was returned.
“Yesterday,” replied Mr Lynch.
Sinn Féin TD Imelda Munster accused the RTÉ executive of showing “utter contempt” for the media committee in its release of information.
Ms Munster said elements of an explanatory note on the use of barter accounts at the broadcaster were “simply not true”.
The note said such accounts were solely used in the context of commercial activity and selling advertising airtime.
Ms Munster said: “It’s a lie because the barter account was used to funnel secret top-up payments to Ryan Tubridy.
“You used the barter account to raise false invoices under the heading ‘consultancy fees’.”
RTÉ’s commercial director Geraldine O’Leary said there was no intention to show contempt and the note was to explain how barter accounts were normally used.
“I was not a part of the intention to deceive. That’s my truth”.
Asked about the two invoices for consultancy fees which were funnelled to Tubridy which Ms Munster described as a “sneaky underhand deal”, Ms O’Leary said she knew they were payments for Tubridy.
However, she said: “I did what I was told to do.”
Asked if her position was tenable, Ms O’Leary said she is due to retire in eight weeks’ time but will have a conversation with incoming director-general Kevin Bakhurst.
“I would like to also say that from my side, I’m not sure my position is tenable because of the invasion of privacy, the effect on my mental health and, most importantly, the erroneous reports on both Twitter and in newspapers about me and my husband has crossed a line that I do not find acceptable.
“For the record, my husband and I paid for our own hotels and flights to Chicago.”
Questions had been raised about Ms O’Leary’s attendance at an international rugby match between Ireland and New Zealand in Chicago several years ago.
Rory Coveney, director of strategy at RTÉ, defended the Toy Show musical, which recorded losses of €2.2 million in its first year.
“We took a creative and commercial risk to try, and for the best of reasons, to try and create something unique for Irish families and for children at Christmas,” he said.
“I’m not sure if anyone here was at the show, but those who attended it absolutely loved it, particularly children.
“It clearly wasn’t a commercial success but it wasn’t from a lack of effort from everyone involved.”
He said no one advised RTÉ that the production was a bad idea.
“We had a lot of advice from people in theatre and musical theatre specialists who had produced very significant productions in the past,” he said.
RTÉ chief financial officer Richard Collins was pressed by Fine Gael TD Brendan Griffin on his assertion last week that there was only one barter account.
Mr Collins said three companies fed into one “consolidated” barter account.
“If someone was to ask you what your weekly shopping bill is and you said €200, you wouldn’t respond to them and say your weekly shopping bill is €70 with Dunnes, €70 with SuperValu, €60 with Lidl, you’d say your weekly shopping bill is €200,” he said.
“I’m saying that there is one barter account in terms of how it’s looked at financially, but there are three companies that feed into it.”
Mr Griffin questioned some of the barter account spending.
He highlighted €20,900 spent on a summer party for agencies and clients in 2016; €12,000 for a Bruce Springsteen concert; €7,500 for a golf outing with accompanying purchases of golf balls and jackets; and €6,358 for tickets for Phil Collins and Robbie Williams’ concerts.
“I’ve heard of ‘let me entertain you’, but that’s a bit ridiculous,” he said.
Mr Griffin was particularly critical of the €4,956 spent on 200 pairs of flip-flops for a summer party for clients.
“Two hundred pairs of flip-flops at €34 each – this is what’s going through this account. This isn’t a batter account, this is a slush fund,” he added.
“And all of these all of these entries ask more questions of RTÉ, who was benefiting, who knew what, why wasn’t this showing up?”
Breda O’Keeffe, the former chief financial officer at RTÉ, has said there was no consideration of the broadcaster underwriting a commercial agreement involving Ryan Tubridy and Renault before she left in early 2020.
Ms O’Keeffe said the first she heard of RTÉ’s decision to underwrite the deal – a move that resulted in the broadcaster paying €150,000 to Tubridy when Renault did not renew the arrangement in 2021 and 2022 – was through media reports in recent weeks.
“My recollection is that Mr Tubridy’s agent requested that the commercial agreement be underwritten by RTÉ and this was refused,” she told the Media Committee.
“This continued to be my position and, as far as I was aware, that of the director-general, the head of content and RTÉ solicitor up to the date of my departure from RTÉ in March 2020.
“I was not aware any guarantee had issued until I heard about it last week in the media reports.”
She added: “When I left in March 2020, an RTÉ guarantee on the proposed Renault agreement was not on offer, as far as I was aware.”
Former chair of the RTÉ board Moya Doherty said she was “personally bewildered and devastated” by the crisis over payments at the national broadcaster.
She said she was “horrified” to hear details of events, which she said the board had no knowledge of.
“What has come to light in the past few weeks confirms unacceptable behaviour and, like many others, there are questions I am looking forward to hearing comprehensive and detailed answers to.
“The latest revelations suggest that unfortunately more questions will arise as the crisis deepens.
“My sincere hope is that the Minister’s reviews can restore RTÉ to the levels of civic leadership and responsibility a public service media organisation ought to, and has to, represent.”
Interim deputy director general Adrian Lynch expressed “profound regret” that standards of governance within RTÉ were “far lower than required” on a number of issues.
“I am acutely aware of the accusations of drip-feed, of non-cooperation and lack of transparency,” he said.
“We fully respect and understand this public concern, our staff’s concern, and the proper focus on accountability from the members of the Houses of the Oireachtas.”
He added: “We would also like to put on record to the members of this committee, our profound regret, that as an executive board, the standards of governance on a number of issues was far lower than required.
“We extend our apology to the public, to our staff, our stakeholders and partners, and to you as public representatives, that our standards of transparency, and professionalism, fell short of what is rightly expected of us.
“RTÉ is comprised of extremely hard-working, talented and capable people. The current crisis is in no way a reflection on their work, or the high levels of integrity with which they operate.”
He concluded: “A public service media that does not enjoy public trust and confidence is missing its core purpose. We must work together to restore that purpose.”
Chair of the RTÉ board Siún Ní Raghallaigh has welcomed reviews into the broadcaster’s accounts, governance and contractors.
In her opening statement to the media committee, Ms Ní Raghallaigh said: “I think it is fair to say that it is this culture, of careless stewardship and indifference to proper process, that has sown the seeds of the crisis that has shaken this institution to its core.”
She said she was “deeply unhappy at the evident pattern of inconsistency and lack of completeness in the provision of information” by the Executive so far.
“Regrettably, this pattern has persisted I believe there is a high probability that more information will emerge in the days and weeks ahead.”
Ms Ní Raghallaigh pre-empted a question on whether she has confidence in the executive by saying a “blanket yes or no” would be deeply damaging to the diverse range of individuals from different parts of the organisation that make up that group as well as the staff that report to them.
She said she was taking legal advice on emerging issues.
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar described the revelations of further RTÉ barter accounts as a “disquieting development”.
“It’s essential that public trust in RTE is restored following the revelations of the past few weeks and the Government has agreed to proposals for a root-and-branch examination of RTÉ,” he told the Dáil.
Mr Varadkar said full transparency from RTÉ had been absent and he said that must change “immediately”.
He said the “drip feed” of information was doing “untold damage”.
“We absolutely understand that the erosion of confidence has done enormous damage and it’s imperative that full clarity around these and all issues is forthcoming without further delay,” he said.
Pressed by Sinn Féin TD Pearse Doherty on whether he believed there would be more resignations at the top of RTÉ, Mr Varadkar stressed that members of the executive board were entitled to due process.
He said the Government did currently retain confidence in the executive board, but he said he reserved the right to change that position as further issues arise.
