Representatives from RTÉ appeared before the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) this morning as the payments scandal continues.
Among those representing the national broadcaster were: director general Kevin Bakhurst, interim deputy director general Adrian Lynch, director of legal Paula Mullooly, group head of sport Declan McBennett, chief financial officer Richard Collins and head of strategy commercial compliance Conor Mullen.
Here are the main points from the committee:
- Mr Bakhurst said RTÉ should not be “brokering or facilitating commercial arrangements with its contractors”
- Mr Lynch has disputed some of the suggestions made by Ryan Tubridy and his agent Noel Kelly
- Ms Mullooly said the tripartite commercial agreement involving RTÉ, Renault and Mr Tubridy was drafted by Mr Kelly
- Mr Bakhurst said he would welcome former director general Dee Forbes appearing before Oireachtas committees to “shed some light” on verbal conversations relating to agreements for payments to Mr Tubridy
- Mr Bakhurst said he would welcome a repayment of €150,000 from Ryan Tubridy and his agent over unfulfilled commercials events the broadcaster had underwritten, but added there is probably no legal obligation for them to do so.
You can follow the updates as they happened below:
1:55pm
Adrian Lynch insisted a February 2020 email did not contain a legal commitment from RTÉ to underwrite the deal.
He said that was done in a verbal commitment by Dee Forbes three months later.
He said his previous statement at the committee referred to fellow executives’ lack of knowledge in relation to this verbal commitment in May 2020.
“I was completely truthful in everything I said,” he said.
“I was referring specifically to May 7TH, 2020 which is the verbal agreement between Dee Forbes and Noel Kelly to underwrite it.”
Imelda Munster challenged his assertion, saying: “You were giving inaccurate information in relation to who knew and who didn’t know.”
1:50pm
RTE’s director general Kevin Bakhurst said he has not spoken to Ryan Tubridy since the presenter appeared before Oireachtas committees on Tuesday.
Mr Bakhurst said he wants to speak to key members of radio staff and the interim leadership team before a decision is made on Tubridy’s future at the broadcaster.
“I want to be fair to Ryan,” he added.
1.29pm
RTÉ interim deputy director general Adrian Lynch has defended his attempt to relay information contained in a text message from RTÉ's former chief financial officer Breda O’Keeffe.
“I received a text, whatever it was, 20 minutes ago. I thought it was very important having made a statement before the house that that should be corrected. I thought it was material.”
The committee refused to hear "second-hand" information, with Independent TD Verona Murphy describing it as a serious matter to attempt to enter a text message into evidence after Ms O'Keeffe said she had no further information to share with the Oireachtas committees.
Mr Lynch had previously told the committee that Ms O’Keeffe’s exit package had not been signed off by all members of the executive.
1.18pm
RTÉ director general Kevin Bakhurst said he would welcome a repayment of €150,000 from Ryan Tubridy and his agent over unfulfilled commercials events the broadcaster had underwritten, but added there is probably no legal obligation for them to do so.
Asked by Fine Gael TD Alan Dillon if RTÉ would look to recoup the money, Mr Bakhurst said: “Yes.”
Mr Bakhurst again stated that Mr Tubridy's latest invoice has not yet been paid while RTÉ consider what needs to be paid given he has been off-air since the controversy arose.
12.58pm.
RTÉ director general Kevin Bakhurst said no legal papers have been served on the national broadcaster on behalf of star presenter Ryan Tubridy amid the payments scandal.
Mr Bakhurst was responding to a question from Sinn Féin TD John Brady, and was supported by acting deputy director general Adrian Lynch.
However, director of legal affairs Paula Mullooly said: “As a matter of principle, RTÉ does not comment on legal matters.”
There was laughter in the Public Accounts Committee chamber as Mr Brady followed up with Mr Lynch and Mr Bakhurst, both of whom again confirmed no legal papers had been served.
12.45pm
Richard Collins said evidence appears to show that Noel Kelly and Ryan Tubridy knew the two €75,000 invoices were being paid by RTÉ.
Sinn Féin TD Brian Stanley asked RTÉ's new director general Kevin Bakhurst about the future funding model of RTÉ, to which Mr Bakhurst said he would agree to the Comptroller and Auditor General having oversight over RTÉ finances if it gave people greater comfort.
12.13pm
RTÉ’s director of legal affairs Paula Mullooly told Sinn Féin TD John Brady that the broadcaster will provide additional documentation relating to the payments scandal to the Public Accounts Committee after receiving legal advice.
“Notes drafted by a solicitor in the context of giving advice would be legally privileged, and we are going to assert privilege.
“However, if there are other documents that I can give that can provide the same information, we will do that,” she said.
12.06pm
Sinn Féin TD John Brady raised correspondence between former chief financial officer Breda O’Keeffe and Ryan Tubridy’s management company which appeared to indicate an agreement on underwriting a tripartite commercial arrangement.
RTÉ’s acting deputy director-general Adrian Lynch told Mr Brady he had seen the email before Ms O’Keeffe’s testimony to the committee last week.
Mr Brady asked why Mr Lynch did not say anything when Ms O’Keeffe told the committee there was no desire to underwrite the agreement when she left the organisation.
Mr Lynch said the email was a point in negotiation rather than a contractually binding agreement.
New director-general Kevin Bakhurst said: “I do think people were operating in silos. I think some people knew some information. I’m not convinced anyone else knew all the information.
“Clearly a number of people who knew parts of this should have spoken up against what was going on, in my view. This is part of the problem. It was fragmented. There were discussions going on, they weren’t properly recorded. This is what I’m having to deal with and sort out.”
12pm
RTÉ representatives were asked about the voluntary redundancy package received by former chief financial officer Breda O’Keeffe when she left the broadcaster.
Current CFO Richard Collins and interim deputy director general Adrian Lynch said they were not aware at the time that she had received such a package.
Labour TD Alan Kelly said all members of the executive team were supposed to sign off on such packages.
“It never came to us for sign off,” said Mr Lynch.
Kevin Bakhurst said the matter was being examined.
“This is an issue that I take very seriously because this is exactly about bringing significant decisions to the executive,” he said.
11.45am
Social Democrats TD Catherine Murphy told the RTÉ representatives that the Public Accounts Committee had been misled and had been “given the absolute runaround”.
RTÉ's chief financial officer Richard Collins said the broadcaster had been audited by Deloitte since 2018.
In relation to the allocating of a €120,000 loyalty payment for Ryan Tubridy backwards across 2017/2019, Mr Collins said this was presented to the auditor and Deloitte agreed with it.
“Deloitte didn’t think it was unusual, they signed off on it.”
11.43am
Labour TD Alan Kelly asked if Ryan Tubridy’s claim that he had taken a 20 per cent pay cut was accurate.
“He took a significant pay cut,” replied Kevin Bakhurst. “That’s undoubtedly true.
“I wouldn’t want to say yes on 20 per cent because I haven’t got my calculator.”
Mr Kelly also asked if Mr Bakhurst thought that making the two €75,000 payments through a barter account was “appropriate”.
“When I heard about those payments I found it appalling, disgusting,” replied the director general.
“I’ve no idea why anyone involved ever thought that was appropriate, on any side, and there was more than one side to it.”
11.40am
Labour TD Alan Kelly criticised comments by RTÉ Radio One DJ Dave Fanning, who described the appearance of Ryan Tubridy and his agent Noel Kelly before committees as a “nonsensical Oireachtas Nuremberg trial”.
The TD, who noted that Fanning was a client of Noel Kelly’s agency, described the remarks as “very insulting”.
Kevin Bakhurst replied: “I don’t know the context of it, all I would say is that is not appropriate from my point of view, that that is a view from an RTÉ employee or contractor, because the work of this committee has been incredibly important in trying to cleanse this.”
On Tubridy’s claim there were seven mistruths from RTÉ, Mr Bakhurst said he did not accept that.
11.35am
RTÉ’s head of legal affairs Paula Mullooly said there was “definitely a misleading or a lack of transparency” around payments to Ryan Tubridy as part of a commercial agreement.
Fine Gael TD Alan Dillon said there was “collusion” between RTÉ and Tubridy’s agent Noel Kelly on an agreement to characterise invoices for payments the broadcaster had agreed to underwrite as “consultancy fees”.
Ms Mullooly said: “I accept what you’re saying about collusion, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it remains to a criminal offence.”
Responding to Fianna Fáil TD Paul McAuliffe, acting deputy director-general Adrian Lynch accepted that the three-way commercial agreement was a way to provide additional income for Tubridy as part of his overall contract negotiations.
Ms Mullooly told Mr McAuliffe that while there was an email from RTÉ to Tubridy’s agent in February 2020 relating to the underwriting of the agreement, she did not agree that this represented a concession in the negotiating process.
11.14am
RTÉ’s new director-general Kevin Bakhurst said the broadcaster would consider paying someone more than €250,000 if they brought that value to the organisation.
Responding to questioning by Fine Gael TD Alan Dillon, Mr Bakhurst said he does not believe he should always have the top salary in the organisation. He is paid €250,000 per year.
He said: “We need to keep downward pressure on the most highly paid presenter pay and that’s what I intend to do during my tenure, but we also need to attract the very best talent because that’s what the audience deserve.”
Acting deputy-director general Adrian Lynch said Ryan Tubridy is an “utterly decent person”.
He said Tubridy and The Late Late Show were “undoubtedly commercially important” to RTE.
However, he said a suggestion by Tubridy’s agent that the presenter had brought in €100 million in commercial revenue “seems high”.
Mr Lynch said “the wheels came off the bus” in relation to paying Tubridy through a barter account in relation to the tripartite commercial agreement.
10.55am
Mr Bakhurst said he would welcome former director-general Dee Forbes appearing before Oireachtas committees to “shed some light” on verbal conversations relating to agreements for payments to Ryan Tubridy.
Ms Forbes has said she cannot attend due to medical reasons.
Mr Bakhurst said RTÉ’s director of content Jim Jennings would also appear when he is well enough.
10.53am
RTÉ’s acting deputy director-general apologised to Renault over the fallout from a commercial agreement involving the car manufacturer, the national broadcaster and Ryan Tubridy.
Responding to Sinn Féin TD John Brady at the Public Accounts Committee, Adrian Lynch said: “I want to apologise to Renault because Renault have been dragged into this, so it’s outrageous, in a way.”
He said it is “completely obvious” that the payment of €75,000 from Renault for three events with Mr Tubridy was from a one-year agreement.
RTÉ had agreed to underwrite two further payments of €75,000 in the event a commercial partner could not be found for subsequent years.
Mr Tubridy, who received a further €150,000 on that basis, has previously said he would pay it back if those events do not proceed.
Asked if RTÉ had asked Mr Tubridy to return the money, Mr Lynch said the broadcaster had not because there was a verbal agreement given to his agent that it would pay the money.
New director-general Kevin Bakhurst said: “There are two things here for me: there’s a legal agreement and RTÉ has a liability.
“Then, I think there’s a moral question about what’s the right thing to do, and I think when we do come to have any discussions with Mr Tubridy going forward – I welcomed his offer the other day, and we’ll wait and see what he does about it.”
10.48am
Independent TD for Wexford Verona Murphy said there is no documentary evidence to support assertions from Mr Bakhurst that RTÉ were not the only party to blame and "there are two sides to the agreement".
10:40am
Adrian Lynch said the tripartite agreement between RTÉ, Renault and Ryan Tubridy was “central” to negotiations around the presenter’s wider contract with the broadcaster.
The interim deputy director general of the broadcaster also challenged Noel Kelly’s claim that he did not know that Renault had not renewed years two and three of the commercial deal.
“In relation to some of the commentary made here on Tuesday last, RTÉ must clarify the proposal to underwrite these payments was central to the contractual negotiations between RTÉ and Mr Tubridy,” he said.
“We believe that the substantive contract would not have been signed without the additional commercial agreements or the underwriting.
“Moreover, we contend that the payments of €75,000 per year for year two and three of the commercial contract were pursued by NK Management (Mr Kelly’s company) despite it knowing that the Renault contract was no longer in place.”
10.30am
Adrian Lynch, the interim deputy director general of RTÉ, challenged evidence given by Ryan Tubridy’s agent Noel Kelly before an Oireachtas committee.
On Tuesday at the Public Accounts Committee, Mr Kelly produced an email from former chief financial officer Breda O’Keeffe referencing RTÉ underwriting a commercial deal involving his client and the national broadcaster.
Mr Kelly insisted the email proved that knowledge of the decision to underwrite the deal was not solely confined to former director general Dee Forbes.
“RTÉ does not accept that a contractual commitment was given to underwrite the commercial agreement in this email,” Mr Lynch told the PAC on Thursday.
“Secondly, regarding the proposal to underwrite Mr Tubridy’s payments, RTÉ again states that the request was known within RTÉ, however, the commitment to do so was not widely known.
“RTÉ’s position is that until the verbal commitment was given by the former director general during the call on May 7th, 2020 it had not agreed to underwrite a €75,000 payment per contract year.”
10.22am
RTÉ’s director of legal affairs Paula Mullooly said the tripartite commercial agreement involving the national broadcaster, Renault and Ryan Tubridy was drafted by his agent Noel Kelly.
Appearing before the Public Accounts Committee, she said RTÉ had brokered and facilitated the arrangement.
Responding to questioning by Fine Gael TD Colm Burke, new director-general Kevin Bakhurst said this practice had been identified as “a significant issue”, adding: “It is not going to happen again.”
Mr Burke asked if Mr Tubridy and Mr Kelly had a right to have more involvement in RTÉ’s initial statements on the payment controversy, and the chairwoman of the RTÉ board, Siún Ní Raghallaigh, said her statement was a result of a fact-finding external review.
“They did talk to several people including Mr Kelly,” she added.
Acting deputy director-general Adrian Lynch said his statement was clear that the review had found no wrongdoing by Mr Tubridy.
10.19am
Mr Bakhurst said RTÉ will have to make a decision soon if they are to continue paying Ryan Tubridy as he is not currently carrying out his radio duties.
As of this week, there is no salary being paid to Mr Tubridy, Mr Bakhurst said.
10.03am
Adrian Lynch, RTÉ's interim deputy director general, has disputed some of the suggestions made by Ryan Tubridy and his agent Noel Kelly.
He said the email from RTÉ's former chief financial officer Breda O’Keeffe is not a contractual agreement.
Mr Lynch pointed to a significant point made by Mr Kelly on Tuesday, when he said he never met Dee Forbes alone.
Mr Lynch referred to a meeting on Monday, April 5th, 2022, between Ms Forbes and Mr Kelly. He added this was at a time when Mr Kelly came looking for the money for Mr Tubridy for the Renault deal.
9.50am
Kevin Bakhurst said it is “regrettable” his first meeting with the committee is under these circumstances. Mr Bakhurst said that RTÉ should not be “brokering or facilitating commercial arrangements with its contractors.”
He said, in his view, the culture in RTÉ needs to change, as the controversy “created one of the most shameful and damaging episodes in the organisation’s history”.
-Additional reporting PA
